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Waggon & Horses

Printed From: Chalfont St Peter
Category: Chalfont St Peter
Forum Name: News & Gossip
Forum Description: News and info on whats up in Chalfont St Peter
URL: https://www.chalfontstpeter.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=8543
Printed Date: 18 June 2019 at 8:21am
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.00 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Waggon & Horses
Posted By: Piglet
Subject: Waggon & Horses
Date Posted: 05 December 2018 at 11:43am
Anyone know why the pub has been closed for the last few nights?



Replies:
Posted By: watsy
Date Posted: 05 December 2018 at 3:07pm
Its closed for good- flats I believe is what they are aiming to convert it to.


Posted By: Dave-R
Date Posted: 05 December 2018 at 3:56pm
Funny enough walked past it a few minutes ago and was thinking how sad that its gone. Although I rarely go in pubs I was on friendly terms with all the faces that used to sit outside there as I walk/drive/jog past multiple times a day.


Posted By: MV Owner
Date Posted: 05 December 2018 at 4:26pm
jesus, more flats.  Developers just dont miss a trick.  What an absolute shame


Posted By: Rich Kid
Date Posted: 05 December 2018 at 7:16pm
It's a growing trend, property developers buying up old pubs and converting them into flats, big profits to be made.


Posted By: Bucks Fizz
Date Posted: 06 December 2018 at 9:58am
In my opinion, The Waggon and Horses should be listed and preserved. This is why:

According to local sources, this rendered brick and slate building is believed to date from at least 1828. It is listed in the Chalfont St Peter Heritage Record as Case no Ch1, since it is considered an asset, both aesthetically and because it is a well-used and cherished pub. Indeed, it is now the only pub in the former hamlet of Chalfont Common (3 others having disappeared in 20th Century) and is one of the few surviving cottage buildings which escaped the expansion of the A413 when the Chalfont St Peter Bypass was constructed. It is much used by local residents, especially the older residents, the walk to the pubs in the centre of the main village being lengthy, downhill and involves crossing the busy A413 where many accidents occur. Recently refurbished, the pub is in good condition and occupies a prominent position at the junction of the A413 with Copthall Lane and Rickmansworth Lane and, as such, is a useful local landmark and a visual asset to the village. The most recent landlord provided musical events and also a weekly meat raffle which was a boon to the common’s less well- off residents. It has a raised terrace/beer garden to the rear.
The first traceable record of the building in official records is in the Manorial records of 1835, when William Boddy, a wheelwright, enclosed a parcel of ‘waste ground (around 20 poles)’ at Gravelly Hill [sic]. It was recorded that a cottage which had been erected by him already stood on that land. On 30 July 1841, ownership of the house and land were transferred from Wm Boddy to George Harman but the building was still occupied by Wm Boddy. In 1842, the property was described in that year’s tithe awards as being ‘a beer house and garden’, owned by George Harman but occupied by Samuel Whitlock. On 2 August 1893, ownership was transferred from the estate of Samuel Harman (deceased) to his executors, William Barden Harman, John Muir Curwen and John Courtenay Jackson. From January 1893, however, the occupier of the beer house was EBENEEZER WINDSOR.
In 1921, the local fire engine for the district was housed at The Waggon and Horses. On 1st January 1926, the property was enfranchised under The Law of Property Act 1922 and on 20 December 1935, there was a compensation agreement drawn up by the owners Harmans (Uxbridge) Brewery Ltd. The landlord of The Waggon Horses, in continued occupation from January 1893 until 1949 was EBENEZER WINDSOR. Born in Bushy, Herts., he lived here with his wife, Matilda Jane (nee Gibbs, a daughter of the publican at The Sugar Loaves pub in Chalfont St Giles), and their nine children were all born in rooms above the pub. They appear living here in the censuses (available up until 1911). Their son, Thomas H. Windsor, who was born in the pub in 1897, was killed, aged just 19, at The Battle of the Somme on 1st July 1916. It has been proposed to erect a plaque on The Waggon & Horses in recognition of his sacrifice. Another of Ebenezer’s children, Frederick Windsor, occupied a cottage in Chalfont St Peter Hight Street which he ran as a shoe shop and which dated from medieval times, contained Medieval wall Paintings and a rare cruck post construction, but which, tragically, was demolished in the 1930s to make way for the present-day reviled concrete precinct.
Ebenezer Windsor took over as landlord of the Waggon & Horses on 30 January 1893 and he married Matilda Jane Gibbs the following month. By the time of his death in early 1949, he had been landlord for 56 years. This makes him Buckinghamshire’s longest continually serving (in the same pub) landlord and arguably the UK’s second longest serving pub landlord.


Posted By: watsy
Date Posted: 06 December 2018 at 1:38pm
Great background info Bucks Fizz, enjoyed reading that.

Wonder how long until it is burnt down post planning application turned down - Miltons Head anyone?


Posted By: ArtB
Date Posted: 06 December 2018 at 4:55pm
Should it be a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asset_of_community_value" rel="nofollow - Community Asset?



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*** If you're not part of the solution, you may be part of the problem!


Posted By: Bucks Fizz
Date Posted: 07 January 2019 at 9:24am
It is indeed a community asset. And further to my earlier rundown of the history of the building, some kind soul has pointed out to me that in fact the Waggon & Horses was there in 1752 when it was assessed as a possible billet for troops in the War Office Billeting Return of that year. That return is held at the Public Records office in Kew, under reference WO 30/49.

If anyone feels like applying online to have it listed, do feel free. I see someone was in there the other day again, measuring up.


Posted By: AlpinaB5
Date Posted: 07 January 2019 at 11:05pm
As a matter of interest, how many of you who have commented so far drank in the pub on a regular basis (4 times a week - that’s the norm for village pubs), and used it as a community asset?


Posted By: Bucks Fizz
Date Posted: 08 January 2019 at 7:12am
Are you the new owner or developer AlpinaB5?


Posted By: Bucks Fizz
Date Posted: 09 January 2019 at 7:55am
Rumour has it that the Waggon & Horses has been bought by the same man who bought Milton's in Chalfont St Giles, which, tragically, burned down before it could be saved. It would be a great shame if the Waggon and Horses were to meet the same fate.


Posted By: big baggles
Date Posted: 09 January 2019 at 8:45am
i used the waggon,  - not 4 times a week, but maybe twice a week for quite some time, would also go in sometimes if there was a good band playing, just nice to go somewhere and have a nice quiet pint or two...

its a shame its closed, - that leaves the dumbell, the jolly farmer and the greyhound and the white hart...

the dumbell is abit of a trek for me, and i dont want to drive there.....
the jolly IMHO is more foody, but nice to sit outside in the summer...
greyhound.......not my kind of place and sometimes  feels like something is about to kick off..
the hart.....needs the second bar putting back ! and new glass in the windows now...and often there is a god awful howl coming from there, ( loosely called the house band or kareoke ) so not ideal for a nice quiet pint...

the village needs a good pub !


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need a stella and i need one now !


Posted By: brewski
Date Posted: 09 January 2019 at 4:44pm
The Three Oaks is nice for a quiet drink and has a pleasant beer garden.Thumbs Up

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Too many laws...
Too few examples...


Posted By: watsy
Date Posted: 09 January 2019 at 6:06pm
I thought people had switched to the Cricket Club, or is it closed for the winter?


Posted By: brewski
Date Posted: 09 January 2019 at 6:13pm
Tried the cc in the summer, was pleasant enough but no substitute for a real boozer.

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Too many laws...
Too few examples...


Posted By: AlpinaB5
Date Posted: 09 January 2019 at 8:47pm
No I’m not the developer etc. I drink regularly in the G’dog.  Good to hear Baggies went there.  My point was a straightforward one. There’s no point people moaning about a pub with so much history closing down if they never use it. What keeps local businesses going is the patronage of the villagers. Forget history, if nobody uses it, it’s literally history. The practical reality now is to turn it into residential use. And I repeat, no I’m not a developer; I’m just realistic. The Wagon “regulars” apparently drink in the cricket club now primarily because of the cheap beer which is why they went to the Wagon during happy hour. They weren’t loyal customers. They chased cheap booze. 


Posted By: AlpinaB5
Date Posted: 09 January 2019 at 8:48pm
Apologies, I meant big baggies.


Posted By: AlpinaB5
Date Posted: 09 January 2019 at 8:54pm
Big baggies! 😂 the problem with 1 thumb typing! I agree with your comments about the Hart incidentally. The 1 bar thing is nonsense. Not good either that the windows got put in. Agree too with your G’dog comments, although I’m usually gone before the idiots come in in a Friday and Saturday wanting to fight everybody.


Posted By: AlpinaB5
Date Posted: 09 January 2019 at 8:55pm
Baggles ffs. 1 thumb and bloody auto correct!


Posted By: noddy
Date Posted: 09 January 2019 at 9:13pm
Cricket club open every day from three. Was there earlier this evening for a quick drink and game of darts. Very friendly venue and gaining in popularity. February 1st a local singer appearing. Well worth a visit.





Posted By: big baggles
Date Posted: 11 January 2019 at 11:16am
Originally posted by AlpinaB5 AlpinaB5 wrote:

Big baggies! 😂 the problem with 1 thumb typing! I agree with your comments about the Hart incidentally. The 1 bar thing is nonsense. Not good either that the windows got put in. Agree too with your G’dog comments, although I’m usually gone before the idiots come in in a Friday and Saturday wanting to fight everybody.

yeah me to, i often go out about 9pm (after the kids have vacated the pub to go do their homework) the waggon was good for a quiet pint or 4 , i miss it....

, the 'g hound' imho just has that ' atmosphere' that i dislike.... so rarely use it now..

the hart on a friday night can be difficult to get to the bar as its busy and a large number drink while stood at the bar, so can be difficult to get your drinks ...plus they have had no hop house for 4 weeks now....Unhappy 

what is it with a pub with no beer ?

looking forward to light nights when i may well wander to the cricket club or up to the jolly farmer and sit out for a while...




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need a stella and i need one now !


Posted By: AlpinaB5
Date Posted: 11 January 2019 at 10:36pm
Couldn’t agree more. I love sitting out the front of the Jolly on a lovely sunny evening and berating the church gang as they park around the front within 10 yards of the junction causing traffic back logs on that very difficult bed. Apparently God is on their side. 😜😜


Posted By: Mal Content
Date Posted: 13 February 2019 at 11:54am
Walked past the Waggon this morning to see a notice for planning permission to demolish the place, presumably to build whatever on the site.

Before there are sharp intakes of breath, please remember that this was just a business that has now joined the George and Poachers as being not required. Business come and go, and fail if they do not reflect need. We have lost Stratton bakery, the Book Shop, the florist in the precinct, numerous restaurants / food outlets and the bike shop to name but a few, and the Party shop is going. All this shows is that these businesses could not keep afloat for whatever socio-economic reason, and have moved on to join BSA motorcycles, British Leyland, Woolworth’s and other numerous brands that no longer exist.

I have to be truthful and say that in 25 years of local living, I didn’t like the Waggon and preferred to walk past and take my trade elsewhere. My opinion only, but certainly reflected by more than a few to my knowledge.

Today’s prophecy; the next to join this band will be the White Hart. Gone south since Rachel left, and has an odd business model. Why shut a bar and fill the place with TV screens? It doesn’t seem to be attracting customers.

Today’s observation. If you want something to remain, use it. I can see the Co-op going since the herd are now clamouring into M&S as though it is the only outlet in the village that sells foodstuffs; it isn’t. Support independents, or don’t moan if they go under.



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Floreat


Posted By: fitzy
Date Posted: 13 February 2019 at 12:25pm
FTR The back bar in The White Hart is to be re-opened soon


Posted By: Bucks Fizz
Date Posted: 13 February 2019 at 12:57pm
Not sure The Co-op could be considered an independent store and it has come a long way from its Socialist roots, but to those who feel it is a shame to lose the only pub on this side of the village, I would say that The Waggon and horses will not be demolished at least until after the application to have the building listed has been considered.


Posted By: brewski
Date Posted: 13 February 2019 at 1:02pm
Originally posted by Bucks Fizz Bucks Fizz wrote:

Not sure The Co-op could be considered an independent store and it has come a long way from its Socialist roots, but to those who feel it is a shame to lose the only pub on this side of the village, I would say that The Waggon and horses will not be demolished at least until after the application to have the building listed has been considered.

Is it officially listed?


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Too many laws...
Too few examples...



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